Keep it simple, gentlepeople. We did not create Krishna consciousness, and we should not try to invent a process. The guru-parampara system dictates that we should not be too clever. We simply need to hear from Guru-Vaishnava and present that clearly without adulteration. Sometimes it seems that bhaktas may get bored, and feel that they need to do something novel or even to jump over the instruction of Sri Gurudeva. It is not necessary and it is not even recommended. Otherwise, yoga-nastha, the chain is broken, the potency is lost, it descends to the mental platform of mere jnana. While it is nice to be compassionate, we need to clearly understand what violence, compassion, truly represent. We used to hear the expression, that if one tries to help a drowning man by saving the clothes and letting the person drown, then what is the use. We may want to “make nice” and not hurt anyone’s feelings, but there is no material formula to solve the problems of material consciousness, samsara. The Guru delivers transcendental knowledge that opens the spiritual eyes of the aspirant. It cannot be realized by mental speculation.
The proposition has been raised that one should join with the “progressive” people of the world in order to bring about spiritual equality in the here and now. Such spiritual equality already exists, not only amongst humans but amongst all living creatures. Sama sarvesu bhutesu. However, to see or acknowledge such equality is not brought about by mental adjustments. It is a stage of freedom beyond the purview of matter. Then genuine compassion arises naturally. Prahlad Maharaj’s expression of feeling sadness for the suffering of others, para dukha dukhi. The ultimate destination for the soul is to enter into the world of Krishna-rasa, wherein all relationships of taste and loving exchange occur with Krishna, Krishna consciousness. We must be cautious to avoid making a ’spiritual society’ which forgets Krishna as the Center of everything. Try to understand what is Krishna. One psychiatrist in the 60’s, RD Laing,wrote one book, The Politics of Experience. Therein he wisely says that if a squadron of airplanes is headed in the wrong direction, then the airplane which desires to head in the correct direction will have to leave the squadron. A lonely proposition, as it always has been for seekers, but one that emphasizes that there is no solace in mass delusion. We need Sri Gurudeva to illuminate the path. Pusta Krishna
(CNN) — President-elect Barack Obama’s top choice for secretary of homeland security is Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano, multiple Democratic sources close to the transition told CNN on condition of anonymity. http://tiny.pl/s3c5
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Dems: Napolitano emerges for Homeland Security job
By LIZ SIDOTI – 11 hours ago
WASHINGTON (Associated Press) — Barack Obama is likely to choose Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano for the job of secretary of homeland security, top Obama advisers and several Democrats said Thursday as the shape of the president-elect’s Cabinet begins to emerge. http://tiny.pl/s3cj
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By Mimi Hall, David Jackson and Fredreka Schouten, USA TODAY
Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano, a former state attorney general with experience on immigration and border security issues, has been told she is President-elect Barack Obama’s top choice to head the Department of Homeland Security. http://tiny.pl/s3cp
Hare Krishna Adbhut Hari prabhu,
Thank you for bringing out valuable information that Matsya Purana, Vishnu Dharmottara Purana and Naradiya Purana have exact astronomical details to precisely compute planetary positions, as one can do with the formulae given in Jyotisa shastras like Surya Siddhant etc.
In relation to the same point, there is some supportive evidence to show that the knowledge available in the Puranas and the Siddhantas existed simultaneously for millions of years, if we take them as it is (contrary to popular propaganda that Puranas are Medieval literature and that the Jyotisa shastras have been imported from Greeks and Romans).
For example, as per Srila Prabhupada’s BG 4.1 Purport, where he explains how the knowledge in Bhagavat Gita was available at least 120,400,000 years ago and in human society it has been extant for two million years.
Similarly in Surya Siddhanta, in texts 1.2, 1.3 and 1.23 it is mentioned that this knowledge was spoken at the end of Satya yuga (Golden age) of this yuga cycle. There it is also mentioned that Surya Siddhanta is the chief auxiliary to Vedanga and has the complete information about the motion of the heavenly bodies. If we add up the durations of Treta yuga (1296000), Dapara yuga (864000) and 5110 years of kali yuga, Surya Siddhanta was spoken at least 21,65,110 years ago (SS1.45-47). So we can understand that, at least as per the text, the knowledge of Surya Siddhanta is not a recent invention.
I wonder sometime if we can fathom the vast oceanic wisdom of Vedic knowledge with our tiny brain…it is certainly the logic of half hen to take what we can comprehend and leave out what we can not. I believe, if we study scientifically (not prejudiced by the bombardment of so called modern science) we will find the Vedic knowledge to be timeless wisdom having complete harmony.
If it would take a lifetime to show the harmony, then it would take an eternity to defy it!!
Your servant,
Ashish Tawari.
If we appear cruel or uncompassionate, even on the material platform, the idealistic college students will reject us.
If we appear sexist or homophobic or racist (and yes, a system of castes tends to sound racist because there is usually some connotation of inheriting ones caste by birth), the idealistic young people will sniff out these defects and disregard us.
I remember one time starting a Hare Krishna club at U.C. Berkeley and a hippie couple who were going to be founding members dropped out because they discovered ISKCON was “homophobic”. I tried my best to convince them otherwise, but it was hopeless. I think the girl had friends who had met some devotees who had made some very homophobic statements. (I easily found other founding members, but I was sorry to lose them.)
We can chalk this all up to their illusion and conditioning, but I have a feeling we can learn from them also. We really may still have some rough edges of cruelty and lack of compassion that actually will not serve us well in building a varnasrama utopia, or even in building today’s devotional communities and congregations.
Not that the daivi varnasrama ideal looks in any way like the typical liberal college student’s idea of materialistic democratic utopia. We have a very different social vision, based on satisfying everyone’s basic natural needs while calling forth self-control and austerity and sacrifice and spiritual study to pull them along the progressive path to spiritual enlightenment. (And beyond that, to the life of devotional service free of jnana and karma).
We should not in the name of “compassion” condone those activities which are really terribly detrimental to the progressive spiritual well being of the people.
However, we really have to embody that love and compassion for all beings we preach about, and temper our love of righteousness with a sense of understanding and tolerance and mercy for the actual position of the people to whom we are trying to give the Holy Names. People can tell when we don’t.
Often, the self-righteous religionists who push measures like Prop. 8 in the political arena are less likely to become devotees of Krishna. It may be that they are already plugged into a belief system like Christianity or Judaism, but also they are being conditioned by a sense of superiority. We do not want to be like them. Nor do such political measures really further the cause of Krishna culture, IMHO.
I did not get that the author was specifically talking about same-sex marriage (except as an example of quibbling), but Jagabandhu raises an important point.
In the daivi-varnasrama system Chris describes, what is the role of gays, lesbians and transgendered?
For that matter, how does the system deal with people who want to unrestrictedly eat beef, or commit other sins?
I like the article very much. Our desire to provide love and good will and justice to all living beings (not only to humans!) leads us to search out the truth of equality on the spiritual platform, and to want to do something about it. But the actual varnasrama society seems a long way off.
Young people today want to change the world and make it a better place, but they also tend to be preoccupied with sexual enjoyment and keeping people happy on the material platform. How do we convince them that strict regulation of the senses and abandonment of illicit sex is the only way forward to spiritually sane civilization? How did Prabhupada convince us? (I guess the Holy Name and Prasadam are powerfully endowed with Lord Caitanya’s mercy in this fallen age, or there would be no hope)
Anyway, back to the first two questions, I do not know the answers. It does seem there was a role for “eunuchs” in old Vedic civilization (I don’t pretend to understand it), but mainly our Vaisnava ideal of society does not have much to offer our gay and lesbian friends in terms of sexual gratification and family life. Even devotees who favor some sort of acceptance of same-sex monogamy* do so only as a kind of booby prize, in recognition that many people in society (regardless of “orientation”) will not be able to follow even the basic rules.
Beef eaters will have to wait until cows die of natural causes. I hope this is not such a deep-grained propensity that it cannot be easily given up. However, economic forces seem to compel farmers in this age to kill cows, and pious government will have to curb such miscreants down by force (maybe combined with incentives?)
In today’s reality, though, cow slaughter, illicit sex, intoxication, are rampant with no end in sight. We just have to perform sankirtan until the population of devotees reaches a critical mass.
Meanwhile we cannot be cruel and uncompassionate to the weak and confused.
*(Many politicians like Obama try to walk the line of extending same-sex unions full civil rights but stopping short of calling it “marriage.”)
Hare Krishna Adbhuta Hari Prabhu,
Thank you for the nice article.
I just want to add that the research related to similarities between Puranas and Jyotisa has been a collective effort by many devotees including Bhanu prabhu and my self, whose names you mentioned in this article. Divya Prabhandha prabhu, Gokula Candra prabhu, Adbhuta Hari prabhu, Radha Madhava Prabhu, Krishna Kirtana Prabhu, Mayesh Prabhu, K.P Vijayendra, Gaurahari Prabhu and family, Kali Charan Prabhu, Kulwanth Prabhu, Somendranath Prabhu, Ashish Prabhu, Dr. Anita Goel and few other devotees are part of the team rendering this service in the guidance of H.H. Danavir Goswami Maharaj.
your servant,
Vamsi dasa.
(Venkata Chebrolu)
Amazing!
“In order to turn the twin cities of Secunderabad and Hyderabad overnight into a London or Newyork…”–this is indeed true and i personally dont have anything against this.
The world is moving towards such kind of development and it is humanly impossible to control large minds which desire such a change.
Specifically Hyderbad had developed amazingly better and their new airport is on part with San Francisco airport(atleast the design and size).
Ofcourse there are always some problems to new ideas!
I knew and have seen roadsize enlargement in that whole stretch.It indeed made the city more neat and good. Traffic was better controlled(though not completely)
Though i see that there might be a valid reason for government to request occupants to evacuate for such reasons(expanding the city),it is not proper to show any partiality .
I remember there is a huge church(beautiful) across iskcon and i am not sure if demolishing those were also part of the plan.It wont be suprising to see such partialities!
“The Government and officials even refused to meet with the devotees, let alone revoke the order. Shockingly and surprisingly, other religious structures on the same stretch never received any demolition notice.” says it all.
It was indeed a nice opportunity to preach and ISKCON did it well.It must have given a good exposure.From the report, i understand that the protest was done in a more harmonious and cultured way. Great Job!
If the situation turns out that it is inevitable and that ths structure should be removed,then ISKCON needs a better place to continue their service.
I donno what Indian law says about moving or demolishing Structures like temples, schools etc.
Dasan
By Sahadeva dasaIn order to turn the twin cities of Secunderabad and Hyderabad overnight into a London or Newyork, the zealous Andhra Pradesh Government invoked Land Acquisition Act on ISKCON Secunderabad Temple on 5th Novemeber affecting the temple and most of its land. Read the rest of this entry »
I most certainly do not believe that people should be abused for their political, racial or sensual orientation. In fact, I’m not even curious about what others may do “behind closed doors” between consenting adults. But I’m tired of having it constantly shoved in our faces by the media and pop-”culture.” Nonetheless, I was wondering how the issue of same-sex “matrimony” has anything at all to do with real spiritual life, the Vedic conception or Varanashrama-dharma (or any other kind of dharma)?
Dandavatts Karnamrita Prabhu!
Your mood of compassionate outreach is very nice!
I remember your kind-hearted association when you were in Berkeley in the early 80’s. I think it was 82′ (or possibly 83′) when I rode with you and your wife in your old yellow Volvo wagon down to LA for Ratha-yatra. And how when you had moved to LA in 84′ and let me house sit your apartment near the LA temple one time when I was basically a homeless vagabond and struggling with the flu.
I’ll never forget how you were reading “As A Man Thinketh,” by Mr. James Allen. “A mind changed against it’s will, is of the same opinion still.”
Personally, I don’t preach (or condescend), but rather “reach” out to suffering jivas that happen to surround me in the world wherever I go, patiently encouraging “prabhu kohe jiva doya vaishnav seva nam ruchi…” and trying to help each soul I encounter to wake up. At least a little more than before. I’m an eternal soul and so are they. So long as we’re both genuinely progressive in our consciousness development, we have forever to really learn our lessons together.
Many years ago, I heard a quote that Srila Rupa Goswami had suggested that “…whoever worships the Divine Couple in the temple, but doesn’t see them in the hearts of all living beings, is simply wasting their time.”
Srila Saraswati Thakur’s own conception was that each soul was to be potentially considered as a temple themselves when awakened with spiritual consciousness. This type of Divine liberality eliminates all ideological demarcation points with the fundamental focus becoming the awakenment of ourselves and others regardless of apparent external ecclesiatical affiliation.
Because I’ve made my living as a construction worker, I’ve developed a sort of a rough exterior aspect (or veneer). Most people who know me in the world are only aware of my strict vegetarianism and my heartfelt insights and humor with which I’m always trying to help lighten up everyone’s heavy loads. Without argument (quarrel) or pretense.
I always try and relate to souls where they’re at and encourage further growth from that point. Most are left with a feeling left unsaid that I must certainly be of their own chosen philosophical persuasion (which is Southern Baptist in my neck of the woods).
Humbly with affection,
Jagabandhu das (aka “Kavi’)
By Mayapur Sasi dasaFor the pleasure of Srila Prabhupada this file contains the following North American results for the month of October: North American Totals, Monthly Temples, Monthly Weekend Warriors etc., Monthly Top 100 Individuals, Monthly Top 5, Cumulative Countries, Cumulative Temples, Cumulative Top 100 Individuals, Cumulative Top 5 Read the rest of this entry »
You may have noticed two things in recent days. The election of Barack Obama, the first African-American to become the President of the United States, and nationwide protests to the passing of Proposition 8 in California of all places, which strictly defines marriage as being between a man and a women, leaving out people of same-sex relationships from this social status and benefit. Read the rest of this entry »
Very nice article. Unfortunately, it seems that enthusiasm for Varnashrama-dharma has waned, at least in America. I recently heard that Gita-nagari scarcely has any full time members and in Alachua, they consider themselves a “temple” and not a farm per se. How do we overcome inertia wrought by lack of inspiration in order to proceed with full enthusiasm to fulfill the final fifty percent of Srila Prabhupada’s perfect vision for harmonious human life? Can we please start at once? For everyone’s sake.
I would like to hear from senior devotees who have extensive experience in preaching in India and from association with Srila Prabhupada whether or to what extent it is important for ISKCON to maintain good relations with the Puri temple administration.
The impression I have gotten so far from some senior devotees (like Pusta Krishna) is that it is not very important. Jagabandhu has also recently cited that Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur had some unresolved disputes with them, and we know that Srila Prabhupada rejected their position on not allowing non-Hindu devotees into the temple.
Of course we should be humble and respectful to all Vaisnavas and certainly to those who are servants of Lord Jagannatha. (Sanatan Goswami burned his feet walking on the hot beach just to avoid possibly contaminating Lord Jagannatha’s servants by brushing against them when he had oozing sores on his body).
But is it really very important for ISKCON that the public see that ISKCON and the Puri temple administration have reached an accord and resolved their dispute? Or can we just explain ourselves to them and to the public, and let the Puri adminsitration and pandas go on disagreeing if they cannot see the error of their ways?
Dandavatts to all! Sri Sri Guru-Gauranga Jayate! All Glory to Srila Prabhupada!
I’m concerned that other ideological bullies in the world may now think that if they wish to impose demands on ISKCON, the need only threaten to burn an effigy of the beloved Founder-Acharya, in order to achieve their misguided objectives. It amounts to conceding to bullyism, which should not be tolerated. It also worries me that some might consider it their considerably misguided privilege to respond in kind by burning an effigy of the Lord of Puri.
This morning I noticed a report on another webpage about some of Srila Prabhupada’s followers congregating in Puri for a protest and Harinam around the Sri Jagannath Mandir. I was very disturbed to read that some of the Harinam particpants had to be forcibly prevented from immolating themselves as a protest in front of the temple.
The same article mentions that one of the offenders made a facsimile of apology claiming they didn’t intend to insult Srila Prabhupada(or his position as a Guru) by burning his effigy. Durvas Muni also did not intend to offend Maharaj Amburish. Unfortunately, the path to hell is often paved with good intentions.
Humbly,
Jagabandhu das
Dandavatts Bhagavat Maharaj(and to all present)!
Sri Sri Guru-Gauranga Jayate! All Glory to Srila Prabhupada!
I very much like your suggested solution for hopefully rectifying the great offense to Srila Prabhupada in Puri. Vaishnavas (the servants of Lord Vishnu) are naturally compassionate to the suffering of other living entities and therefore are always seeking to proffer spiritual upliftment as a means for relieving their distress. Punishment is in the province of Sri Yamaraj and sometimes Sri Sudarshan Dev as in the unfortunate case of Durvas Muni’s great offense to the lotus feet of Maharaj Amburish. The present unfortunate incident is very analogous in this regard. Just as Lord Vishnu gave advice to Durvas Muni on how to rectify his offense. We should know that Lord Vishnu’s devotees would represent Him with similarly compassionate advice towards hopefully effecting a solution for overcoming offense which is agreeable to all concerned parties.
My own letter to the Puri Venerables initially appeared in rough draft on Dandavats.com as comment to Professor Provost’s nice article on Saturday morning. When I wrote it I was thinking of how this terrible incident might hopefully be ameliorated so that the offenders might not have to suffer for their grave insult to Srila Prabhupada and his worldwide followers. The incident of Durvas Muni immediately came to mind.
I was very interested to hear from Sripad Pusta Krishna Prabhu and your Holiness more detailed information about Srila Prabhupada’s own mood and feelings regarding Sri Puri Dhama. I also saw on another webpage where Sripad Ksamabuddhi Prabhu mentions that Srila Prabhupada had said that when the ISKCON Bhuvaneshwar temple was built, Lord Jagannath would leave Puri to reside there instead. We might also remember the consideration that Srila Saraswati Thakur himself had disagreements with way kirtan was performed in Puri, which were apparently never resolved, even with the intervention of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur himself. It would be good for us to know more about these things in terms of sourcing quote veracity, etc. When seeking to harmonize opposing elements without compromising ideological integrity—always consider everything, if possible, simultaneously.
Humbly,
Jagabandhu das
“It is a shocking turn of events. How can the servitors of Lord Jagannatha, whom the Lord has permitted to care for Him in His transcendental abode, be so completely ignorant of the principles of devotional service?”
I cant simply understand or comprehend a convincing answer to this.
It is indeed a shame!
How can someone who daily goes to jagannath temple,take jagannath prasad,lives by devotional service end up doing this most abominable act of burning murtis.We say even if we accidentally perform bhakti, the effect or benefits are manifold.
Ofcourse the pandas are not demons or athiest acting like a devotee.
I know many pandas who appreciate and welcome iskcon devotees.Is it a problem with a bad leader?No clue!
I am very much interested in knowing the inside information as to who exactly were those people and who is the person behind and what the real intent was.
What be it ,it was an act of blaspheme and something really fishy is going on!
Request iskcon members to handle this most generously and modestly though it calls for a severe punishment!Afterall it is a movement of Sri Chaitanya and Nityananda who forgave jagai and madhai.
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
Dasan
Responding to the situation in newspaper editorials and other mass media outlets could be a golden opportunity to preach and get ISKCON and Srila Prabhupada’s name out there before the public in a favorable light.
Our experts in the “communications” field should be working overtime (I imagine they probably are) in addressing the situation, taking full opportunity to make the consumers of news (as well as those directly involved in the dust up) more acquainted with the glories of Srila Prabhupada and what he has done by founding ISKCON and establishing the observance of Lord Jagannatha’s Ratha Yatra for the benefit of all the people of the world.
Dear Bhagavat Maharaja,
Thanks for clarifying that the proposed ritual would include the admission of non-Hindu born devotees into the temple (at least for the occasion of the proposed program).
The idea of listening to a lecture by Srila Prabhupada might be a good idea too. And they should be well-informed of the glories of Srila Prabhupada’s service and preaching, of how he organized Ratha yatras in Calcutta as a small boy, and how he visited Puri in his youth, how Lord Jagannatha self-manifested (via his disciple Malati) in San Francisco and became the first Deity worshipped in ISKCON, and how many Ratha Yatras have been observed by ISKCON in so many locations around the world, how much chanting goes on and prasadam gets distributed and books get sold and what sacrifices are made and difficulties surmounted for pulling these festivals off in so many locations every year.
Lord Caitanya decreed (as recorded in Sri Caitanya Caritamrta) that every human born in India should make his life perfect and engage in the highest welfare work of preaching the Krishna bhakti cult. He predicted that His name would be preached in every village and town in the world. These pandas should be made to appreciate how Srila Prabhupada carried out such orders and fulfilled such predictions on an unprecedented scale (and personally observed Ratha Yatra on different dates). Only then could they begin to fathom the seriousness of their offense.
I do not know anything about what happened and what is currently happening, beyond what I have read on Dandavats. I also know nothing about the Puri temple administration nor even about the attitudes of the various parties involved in the protests and the administration (except that the low mentality of the protesters is evident from their outrageous acts themselves).
So, please do not take very seriously my comments here on Dandavats. I am just indulging my propensity to participate in the discussions. I do not pretend to have any specific insights.
Your experience in preaching in the area and in dealing with the temple administration in the past might give you some very useful expertise in understanding what on earth is going on and how ISKCON should officially respond. (There should be an official response.)
I anxiously look forward to seeing how this tense situation unfolds, knowing full well that the Lord always protects his pure devotees and often works in mysterious ways.
Y.s., Akruranatha das
Yes, there definitely should be an official ISKCON response made on behalf of the Governing Body. I do not want to rush anybody, because it ought to be a very good response, but I am surprised so far to have only seen responses from individual devotees who do not speak on behalf of ISKCON as a whole.
As for whether ISKCON at least in India can observe Rathayatra on the exact date, and whether this seems like a reasonable request by the Puri temple administration, that would be a question best directed to those who organize ISKCON Ratha Yatras in India. I do not agree that it is necessarily a reasonable request.
There might be all kinds of logistic problems (or maybe it can be done), but for us the fact that Srila Prabhupada did not do it that way is sufficient to satisfy us that observing Ratha Yatra on the specific date is not particularly important spiritually. On the other hand, if it is a practical measure that can avoid a confrontation and achieve valuable objectives for improving the preaching atmosphere in India, it might be something ISKCON should consider.
However, it is a completely different question from the outrageous and abominable tactics employed by those who ignorantly protested against ISKCON. This may be one of those situations where there can be no practical discussions unless and until the serious offense to Srila Prabhupada’s lotus feet has been duly rectified.
It reminds me of an incident following the 9/11/01 attack on the World Trade Center. A Saudi prince gave a very large, multi-million dollar donation to New York City to help defray the City’s huge losses in the attack. However, the prince went on to say that while he regretted the criminal tactics employed by the terrorists, the U.S. should also reconsider its middle-eastern foreign policy which aroused the animosity of those who perpetrated such atrocious crimes. The Mayor of New York City immediately rejected and returned the donation, and was widely applauded for his decision.
It was not that there is no place for discussing and criticising the U.S. policies in the middle east, but the raising of the issue at that time and in conjunction with the large donation made the donation seem like an attempt to buy off American anger at the terrorists, and even to buy acceptance that the terrorist attack could serve some beneficial purpose as an occasion for reconsidering U.S. policy.
The two issues should not be linked, as if one excuses the other.